Female Pastorate - The Literal Approach

I have already laid out all of the traditional arguments yesterday as to why women may not hold the position of pastor or elder in the Church.  But, the arguments are a bit more in-depth than what a traditionalist is willing to go into supporting their arguments as to whether or not Paul is right or wrong, much less did Paul recognize female pastors?  By the way, Paul does mention females whom were believed to lead churches, but those references are ignored by the traditionalist and who they are is of no importance to this discussion ...

Viewpoint of Gifts
There is no assignment nor limits on usage of the Spiritual Gifts.  Male or female you each will be given gifts according to the will of the Holy Spirit.  How you use them is in part God's will and perhaps your own.  But, use it wrong and do not expect to have it for long!  It is the Holy Spirit's not yours!

Viewpoint of Ministry Opportunities
The word we use for Pastor from the Greek is the same as the one for Shepherd.  So, it is a Biblical concept.
From the Reformation Movement, the Pastor was one of the serving Elders, hence the requirements listed in yesterday's article for an Elders as logically being applied to the office of Pastor..

My Take On This

The traditional viewpoint is un-Godly and insulting to anyone willing to study their Bible or is female!
I am sorry but the Roman Catholics got it wrong 1700 years ago.

1 Corinthians 11:2 - 16
In this chapter, Paul discusses the concept of hair and head covering for women.
11:5-- “but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered disgraces her head--it is one and the same thing as having her head shaved.”

First up, a woman prays...  We are dealing with corporate worship in the church here.  Not over breakfast, not at the grocery store, not behind the wheel of their car.  They are in church and for what ever reason have been asked to pray.
And she is expected by Paul to have a Head Covering.

When my oldest daughter was in 10th grade, she was asked to say a prayer during the Sunday when the youth of the church took over all duties of the church.  She asked what to do.  So, I told her: "Write down your prayer so you can read it and then have a scarf on your shoulders to pull up over your head before you pray."  Seemed easy enough.  And because I am a Hutterite, this was to be considered quite normal.  Because she had been exposed to Russian Orthodox, it again was quite normal to her, even though not done in our church.  You also have to understand that she had not been out of a Russian orphanage all that long was still growing a head of hair.

That simple act of covering her head, you would have thought she had pulled off her blouse and bared herself, the reaction was that violent and so immediate to her prayer!  And the elders decided to take me on, followed by the pastor and the head of the women's ministry.  And we each proved to our own satisfaction the other quite wrong.  (And I am still right ... :) )

I am sorry.  But if she was to lead prayer during the service - she had to cover her head or just be in rebellion to God.  (Don't yell at me yet, finish with this study first!)

Pretty simple really.

Still in 1 Corinthians 11, Paul mentions a woman prophesizing.
Prophesy has two definitions: to foretell and to forthtell.

Foretelling is what most people think of when the terms prophet or prophesy is brought up.  Revealing the future has a means to draw the audience to God.  Many will argue that this no longer exists and certainly the vast majority whom claim a gift of prophesy are full of themselves and not the Holy Spirit.  (And yes, I can say I know of one whom has been 100% in his prophesies.)

Forthtelling is explaining what it is that God has done.  Revealing His hands at work all around us.  This is the role of the Pastor in your church!

So a woman, could very well be Forthtelling in the church service!  But the traditionalist would not accept that she is fulfilling the role of Pastor!  And she is told to have a Head Covering, in order to honor man and her God.

But, wait a minute!  Paul just answered this whole battle right here - there are women pastors he recognizes!  And if they are of God, they will cover their heads.  Ah, but we have oh so much more to cover!

Pre-Christian Culture
Corinth had three temples to the goddess Aphrodite, the goddess of love, employing some one thousand temple prostitutes. The city was renowned for these temple prostitutes, who served the wealthy merchants and the powerful officials living in or traveling in and out of the city.  It is thought that much of what Paul wrote concerning women in Corinth may well have been culturally relevant to Christian woman living in Corinth.

So, you are a Christian woman, you need to have long hair - the prostitutes were either bald or had very short hair.  Then cover your hair when praying or prophesying (per above) to further distance  yourself from the the prostitutes and their activities during their "services".

Christian Culture
The Roman Catholic Church took the stance that Paul's instructions for women in Corinth were for all women everywhere, across all time.  This is based upon the concepts of:

• Verse 2 (παραδίδωμι, παραδόσις) indicates that Paul’s instruction is part of traditional doctrine that he was passing on to the Church.  But Paul here does not give any details of the instruction. That is picked up in the rest of the passage.
• Verses 3-9 base this instruction on a theological hierarchy and on creation.  God is the head of Christ, Christ is the head of the man, the man is the head of the woman.  It is important to note that Paul is in no way arguing for the inferiority of the woman to the man, for he roots his convictions in the Godhead. Christ is only functionally subordinate to the Father.  The wife, then, is functionally subordinate to the husband, but in no way positionally inferior.
• Verse 10 bases the  woman’s symbol of subordination on a fine point concerning a witness to angels of man's authority or personal submission.
• Verses 13-15 roughly constitute an argument from nature.
• Verse 16 is an argument from the collective wisdom of the church universal, for Christians elsewhere have no other practice.

The point being - woman are to cover their heads in some manner.

Modern Culture

Today, however, the situation is quite different, at least in the West.  For a woman to wear a head covering would seem to be a distinctively humiliating experience.  Many women--even biblically submissive wives--resist the notion precisely because they feel awkward and self-conscious.  But the head covering in Paul’s day was intended only to display the woman’s subordination, not her humiliation.  Today, ironically, to require a head covering for women in the worship service would be tantamount to asking them to shave their heads!  The effect, therefore, would be just the opposite of what Paul intended.  Thus, in attempting to fulfill the spirit of the apostle’s instruction, not just his words, some suitable substitute symbol needs to be found.  And that answer lay within the realm of the culture to which you are member of.

So, as with most controversy within the Christian body of believers, we have the duty to study all issues, consider all things in prayer and then understand that we represent God - not ourselves or our desires - before all whom surround us.  With that comes the requirement:

"See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise", Ephesians 5:15

“You became obedient from the heart to that pattern of teaching to which you were committed”, Romans 6:17

What is wisdom when considering the idea of women in the pastorate?

For some it is a resounding "NO" and God becomes limited in that church to the narrow viewpoint of subjugation of women.
For some it is a resounding "YES" and God is free to use whom He cares to in that church, assuming that those people for whatever positions they are being considered for, they are Biblically qualified for!

As for the entire issue of head coverings ...  We do not live in a culture where they are expected nor respected.  Personally because of my early Hutterite days, yes I think they are appropriate for females personally - whether your church practices this or not.  This something which is between you and God, if you are female.  If you are male - shut your mouth and let the women decide for themselves!  This is not a matter of "maturity" or "special revelation"!  It is their testimony of their faith in God, of their submission, not yours ...

Last Rites

This is a photo I clipped last year because I thought it was a touching, though I had no clue what to do with it.

It was taken during one of the many Venezuelan civil unrests.  In it is Naval Chaplin Luis Padilla, intervening to administer the last rites for a dying soldier just shot by a sniper.  I would like you to notice a few things about this photo:  Padilla is not there in his military capacity, he is there for a wounded man; he is not flanked by soldiers, he is unarmed and quite alone; the dying man is clutching him.

Luis Padilla has it right.

Just like this Chaplin, we are to be of the same material as him, to this world.  We are supposed to be strangers in a strange land, we supposed to be ambassadors for God's kingdom to a world which does not know him,  we are supposed to be at war with the spirit of this age.  But, pretty much, we want to be friends with the world, compromised by this world, as ineffectual as possible in serving God - completely hampered by ourselves and nothing else.  (Yes, speaking about me as well here!)

Padilla has placed his life at risk, to do his duty to God, towards a man in need.  Perhaps this is one of his parishioners, perhaps a complete stranger.  Does not really matter.  No matter whom he is, we are to render what we are able to do for this man about to meet his Creator - including letting him know what we know about God's saving grace.

Like the parable of the Good Samaritan, we are to do what we can, when we see the opportunity to act on God's behalf in this world.  For Padilla, it was exposing himself to taking a bullet to the back to comfort this man at that time of his death.  A week ago for me, it was making myself completely and totally vulnerable for an ex-friend.  For you ...  What is it that you can do to reach out to those whom surround you in this world?  Not because you have anything to gain but because you need to represent God to that person in their time of need?

Our goal in life is to be that representative for God.  Not to accumulate wealth we bury, not to tithe to send others to do OUR job in this world, not to even cluck our tongues at what we see and "know" is wrong.  We are to be active in this world, in our communities, in our friends lives, in our families - representing God's LOVE and His TRUTH.  If you have a mind to, God will use you, as you make yourself available to Him, to serve others.

In The Last Days

Back to reading in 2 Timothy today, 2 Timothy 3:1 - 9

But understand this ... in the last days ...

All of the new testament writers believed there were in the last days!
Some pointed to Jesus' birth as the start of them.
Others to his resurrection!

Thus as a believer in these last days:

EXPECT Misdirected Love

Replacing love will be Self, Money, Pleasures, Sex, no love for God
Problems of the heart
Idolatry, where anything and everything takes the place of God in your life

Our culture is all about "Me" and "Mine"
Love has been turned upside down to be physical and not relational
We are to love:

1. The Lord God
2. Neighbor as yourself

But we love ourselves, ignore our neighbors and have no clue whom God really is.

Think on Hosea and Gomer.
A man married to a woman whom could not come home
The picture from God of Himself and an unfaithful nation of His people

Continually reaching out, continually being rejected, continually running away.
And God continues to reach out in love, but love is no longer understood.

EXPECT Gutted Godliness
 "Having the appearance of Godliness but denying its power"

• We must avoid pretenders
• They go through the motions
• They want mountain top experiences
• They want the good experiences
• They want the protection wealth provides
• Then they want to die like Lazarus and be comforted in luxury by God!

EXPECT Tainted Truth
Charlatans will creep in with stealth
Capturing the attention of vulnerable women (be watchful ladies!)
Compared to the sorcerers whom opposed Moses, through counterfeit miracles
All pronouncing the biggest lie:

• East Drink and Merry for tomorrow you may die (with no hereafter!)

Take heart, their deeds will be known
They will be exposed
The world will come to an end
And God wins!

Now, let also include John 15:10!

If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

This one is a bit hard.  Look at  your life and evaluate where you are in keeping what Jesus has said he expects of  you.  Did you have to justify your life?

Welcome to the Last Days ...
It is time to get real with your faith.

Remembering Sanctity of Human Life

It is Sunday night and I just finished writing Monday's post about my ex-friend Elspeth.  It is best she be an ex, as she is apparently too dangerous for guys right now.  And well, she did at attempt to impinge my integrity.

I thought to data mine my blog to see if I could find one of my missing posts, well actually it is a series of four of them, and the blogger search tool suddenly pointed me to a post I had forgotten about since I was last in Tuscon: Sanctity of Human Life

It was so weird.  I can remember Kathy, my mining partner's wife going into Safeway for some Dr. Pepper.  She got in the car and as we pulled away, the shooting started.

I thought it was a movie set and they were filming.  Heavens there were cameras everywhere, ambulances on standby and lots of police.

My mining partner thought it was a college prank.

Why would someone want to shoot up a political meeting in Casas Adobes? 

Thirty minutes later we are in a town whose name I can not pronounce (T.....) and on the news was hysteria over the shooting in Casa Adobes.  What shooting?  Oh my God, what we had just witnessed!  It made no sense.  It still does not.

The little community was in shock, my friend has lived there for over 40 years.  There is no one he does not know, nor have an opinion about!  The pastor of his church was dumbstruck.  He committed suicide about two weeks later.  Yeah.

So, sit back, click on the above link and read something which still brings tears to my eyes and think on what we have lost in our culture ...

The World Versus The Christian

Philippians 4:8

Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.

You and I live in a world controlled by Satan.  We are surrounded by evil, longing to rub off on us the stain of this world.  A world dedicated to bringing each of us down – compromising our witness, destroying our families, destroying our lives – if at all possible!  No part of us is immune to the constant attack, our spirit, emotions, mind and body are all targeted and all too willing for our defenses to be worn down.

If we are going to spend time surrounded by Satan’s world, eventually the questionable things of this world are going to rob us of the power meant for a Christian life meant to be lived as as witness to a lost world.  The reason we have no power is that we spend our time in the world, filling up on the things of this world – our minds and emotions, answering the siren's call of sin.  If you are like most, you wonder why you have no power in your life to stand up to distraction, no power not to sin, no power to live apart from the world.

When we study the history of the early church, and its impact upon a God-less Roman world, you have to stand amazed at the almost complete lack of impact Christians have today upon an even less God-less world than 2,000 years ago!  "Christians" are taken in by every new doctrine to come along, no matter how far it leads away from the God they claim to know but can not find.  "Christians" no longer have the ability to discern right from wrong, truth from error, much less, to be able to "discern the spirits".

One explanation is the almost complete ignorance Christian’s have of the Bible.  We know about the Bible but not the Bible’s actual contents!  Further, some know their Bible but possess no understanding of what the Bible actual says.  Then to return to the concept of our lack of power, we must know our Bible, we must understand our Bible, we must be able to apply our Bible in our day to day lives. Else, the world will be as the world current is!

The Bible, the Word of God, is meant to be our spiritual food.  The only way to grow spiritually is to spend time in the Bible.  It is this Word which reveals Jesus to us.  We need to see Him and His life reflected in the mirror of the Bible.  We need to have the reality of Him in our daily lives.  And, to do that is to behold the glory of God.

Contemplation of whom Jesus is, is where power is to be found.  We need to leave behind the troubles and lure of this world, digging deep into our Bible where we can contemplate, worship and praise Him.

(with apologies to J. Vernon McGee, from whom the idea for this post was “borrowed” as this fits in with what follows)

Come Together

It seems to be the now prevalent Western mindset that, "I am man/woman", (thump chest loudly), "I need no one ... "  In many ways this has been the Hollywood take on what it took for a person to overcome the wild American frontier, the hearty individualist whom driven by manifest destiny strove forward and conquered a new land!  Thank you Hollywood for that spin on history ...

In all of my reading of diaries of the pioneers, frontiersmen, explorers, etc - there was one (1!), only one, like that!  Without exception most of the fur traders, explorers, etc started out as missionaries using fur to finance their finding, living and witnessing to the American Indian.

Wait a minute!  No they were loners, they ate anything that moved and often each other!  They took what they wanted.  They killed all whom opposed.  Yeah, right.

These "individualists" traveled in groups, died in groups, were wholly dependent upon one another for survival, companionship - every aspect of life.  There was no "me first" or "only me" mentality, that is Hollywood's effect on culture, not real life.  And I mentioned the exception, yeah he did not fare too well - the other trappers hung him at the first fur trade rendezvous ...  You want to do your own thing, don't expect others to be supportive of the idea in real life.

So aside from this sickness throughout Western Culture now, we were born with an engrained desire, need, requirement for others - to just survive the day to day struggles in life.

And Timothy, dependent upon Paul, now faces his church quite alone.  He is not like them, his background is different, his age is below expectation, and he is supposed to do this single handed?  No, he still needs help to survive.  Luckily as Christians we have the expectation and requirement to be there for one another, in all aspects of life - and particularly in prayer.

2 Timothy 1:15 - 18

Acknowledgement
The Roman Provence of Asia was failing.
The Christian Church of Ephesus was failing.
Paul is facing his own death.
Paul feels his loved ones have deserted him.
Paul feels betrayed, abandoned, discouraged.

So, acknowledge the awful in your life!
Then prepare to move on from it.

Turn to Praise
Look at what Paul does in this section, he praises Onesiphourus!
Find the good around you and praise God for that!
Be thankful today, in all things.

Life can be very bleak at times, especially so when our eyes are on ourselves and our failed desires.
I remember laughing so hard one day when life sucked so bad for me in my early Christian days and the one working with me said, "You know when life sucks and you don't want to pray?  That is when you need to pray the most."  I was laughing because all I would have done is pray!  And, maybe that is what I should have been doing ... instead of concentrating on the negative impact of what it was taking to drag me out of the world and into real life as a Christian!

Become a Blessing
Everyone around you, including you needs encouragement!
Be that encourager to others!
When you see a need think on how to help fill it!
Fund what you can, find resources for what you can not!
Help others to succeed with your help!
And be willing to accept encouragement and help as well!

The Rest of the Story
So how did Timothy do?  History becomes silent because people do not connect the dots.  Paul dies around 60 AD, his head lobbed off after teaching his last class, at their request he baptizes his Roman guards, whose heads are then removed as well.  Then probably around 69 AD John suddenly appears in Ephesus, if he came when James was murdered by the Rabbis in Jerusalem.  He may have come later as well but we know that Mary lived and was buried outside of Ephesus, so in 69 AD she would have already been close to 90!  Ancient for anyone in that day and age!  Timothy's church was given the last living apostle for maybe the next thirty or so years!

Today the Ephesus church lies in ruins.  The Christian believers all fell into apostate beliefs throughout Asia - the lure of the Gnostic belief system was too strong a pull for something as simple as Christianity to stand against.  The Gnostics might have even survived to this day - if a major earthquake had not flattened all of the Provence of Asia.  In the end, God silenced the Gnostics and their "mysteries" of the Christian faith.  Their churches flattened, their books buried until the 1950's, their leaders more than likely dead as well.

Today the Western Church lies in ruins.  It drank the Kool-Aid of Hollywood and the ascended man.  It forgot there was a basis for truth and accepted every lie which became convenient.  And man, left with no standard for belief, much less life, was left to his own resources to become the "individual" and chart a course through life of their own choosing - and in the end blaming God for all of their mistakes along the way ...

Throw away the falsehood in your life!  Find/pray to find, those whom can join with you in truth and encourage one another to make a difference in each other's lives as well your own and ultimately the world around you - after-all, that is why you are here.

Live Without Fear

We have all of these gradient words for Christians: born again, convert, believer, follower, disciple, apostle - probably more exist, my mind is tired today.

So, we could argue that this is a growing through steps or stages kind of thing, but honestly I think that is a cop out to make excuses for all of the failures and lack of commitment we witness in the "christian" church of today.  Nowhere are you called to be born again, a convert or a believer and oh, by the way, that is end for the requirement of God on you.  And yet most inside this western modern "christianity" believe is to be true!  God expects oh so much more ...

You are in fact to be a disciple of Jesus.  You are to be someone whom not only follows Jesus, hence a follower, but you are to do as He did.  This does not come naturally nor easily, but then God never said He would ever give easy assignments.  He has to make a disciple out of your willingness to so.  You get to learn.

As Christians, we are called to live in this world and yet not become a part of this world.  What is that supposed to mean?!?!?  No house, no car, no 401k, no stocks, no bonds, no marriage, no family, no anything?!?!?!?!?  You would be mostly wrong - we are expected to pay our way in this world, pay for your housing, food, expenses, etc.  But we are not supposed to be anything more than living in this world, not vested in it.

Of course, this means that we will have a greater requirement for dependence upon God in our daily lives.  And that does not come easily - God will test you, bit by bit, it will be painful - you will question your faith - you will discover fear.  And you are not to have a spirit of fear.

2 Timothy 1:8 - 14

1.  We are not supposed to be ashamed!
In Jesus
In the gospel
Of the Church
Of the messenger

2.  I am willing to suffer!
For God
For Jesus
For His Gospel

You are called to suffer
You are called to do God's Will
You may or may not suffer ~ that is God's plan/will/lesson for you

Suffering is a blessing.

3.  I will follow!
Christianity is not a list of do's and don'ts
Christianity is history
Christianity changed the world once, it can do it again!

Know what you BELIEVE!

4.  I will guard!
God will guard what we give Him

We are to guard the message of the gospel God has entrusted to us.

Today, we find ourselves caught in the perfect storm!
We live a post-Christian world because of the failure of the Christian generations before us!
Our church no longer actually believes in God's reality!
Our church no long actually believes in the power of the Holy Spirit!
Our church questions if there really was a Jesus as the Bible describes!
Our seminaries crank out non-Christians as pastors!
Our seminaries no longer teach truth of the Gospel!
Our seminaries teach man's popular doctrines of the day!
Our seminaries have abandoned Christianity.
Our pastors are beset by immorality.
Our pastors are beset by the secularness of their congregations!
Our pastors are called upon to do all WE should be doing!

So how are you going to start to make a difference in taking the world back?  The answer is to end the fear reigning in your life.  But you have to begin to withdraw from the world system you have been sold out to.

(naturally, there are many specific examples of wonderful Godly men in the pastorate and a few solid seminaries as well - but I am addressing the 90%, not the 10% of what exists)

Fashion Attire

Women's fashion across the past several years has gone so far downhill, here in the northwest of America, as to be - why did they even dress at all?  Honestly, had these women gone out in public in the smallest bikini possible, they would have been more appropriate!

I was at a funeral not so long ago and the woman seated in front of me was dressed rather oddly for a funeral, but hey this is the northwest, a lack of convention is expected at times.  But, she was not very appropriate!  As it was an Episcopal service, there was lots of standing and sitting.  The more standing and sitting, the more the woman's sweater rode up, revealing an ever higher climbing thong.  Eventually it was to the point where I had to wonder exactly how much higher that thong could go before she gave herself the ultimate wedgie and ran screaming to the bathrooms!  I have to admit I missed most the later part of the ceremony as I was fighting with every resource to reach out and give that purple strap a mighty tug.  It also intrigued me as to why she could not tell that her sweater was just about reaching her neck by the end. Yeah, her escort was fascinated as well, so I am not thinking husband material there.

Saturday night I was at The Old Spaghetti Factory for dinner with my youngest daughter.  It was fun, she spent most of the time on her cell phone clicking away and I was watching these two college age women whom were obviously picking out people to make comments about.  They were having a good time.  At the next table further from them, was a young couple, he obviously smitten, she more relaxed.  As they got up to leave - it seems her dress was not designed to ever cover her crotch.  But, it was all okay, she wasn't wearing any underwear either.  Well, that one was a shocker, but the two girls just exploded in laughter, turned bright red, covered their mouths, etc!  The young blonde girl did not even notice ...  Yeah, I thought of a smart ass remark at the time, but I would never say such a thing!  Someone called the cops whom arrived about 10 minutes after the couple had left.  The female officer then made the rounds looking under tables for other offenders ...  I was so trying not to explode in laughter myself!  As for the young couple, well they moseyed out to their car and the alarm rearmed itself and was still going off when my daughter and i left .... and the officer is just checking out crotches under tables rather than being curious as to the flashing lights and honking horn.

And at church the women, young and old alike, have taken to wearing stretch pants.  I am sure they have some modern fancy name but they are basically just a 1950's style stretch pant made out of some low grade body contour hugging nylon weave.  How low grade?  Well, if you wear any form of underwear they are plainly visible through the weave!  And oh by the way, many were not wearing  any.  So, imagine the look of that one!  I feel for women so stupid as to ignorantly be wearing anything so revealing and immodest.  I feel for the young men of the church - visually driven with no ability to deal with it.  I really wanted to take the stage, stop the program and give a lecture ...  I would probably start by naming colors, panty styles and then mention a mole I doubt many knew about.  Yeah, we are talking revealing here.  Of course, I am the evil one here by even thinking of being so insensitive!

The guys do not manage much better in church.  There are the guys for whom the mysteries of buttons were never explained and it always seems to be hairy chested men whom suffer from this affliction.  I am not sure what the lure is of a hairy chest, personally I think it is disgusting and should be combed and/or straightened.  Amongst the younger crowed through whom do not understand that if you put a belt on, pull your pants up, they will stay in place and not have to be held up with both hands, while bending over.  And I have only seen one guy ever come wearing stretch pants ...

Sure we live in a free for all society, almost anything is acceptable these days and shame on you if you have a problem with how I choose to live my life!  But, God created sexual attraction, otherwise the human species would have died out at Adam because he would be organizing unicorn football events and figuring out how to brew beer.  And with that attraction comes our own responsibility to treat with consideration any situation which could be uncomfortable or enticing to a member of the opposite sex.

Of course this evil culture we live in says it is your problem if you can not deal with how we choose to live our lives or display ourselves.  But, then we live in both a God-less (there are no standards) and Love-less (I do what I want to do) societies.  Yeah, that translates to the term EVIL in God's book.

A Question on Natures

I really need to talk with my friend.  I have called and called but just can not get a reply, which is a pity because with my mind, I am not likely to remember much longer what it is I need to ask.

So, I will lay it out here, perhaps one of you will answer ...

Now I have spent months roaming through my video library, culling out movies I really am not interested in any lionger: too boring, inappropriate nudity, or something is just plain "wrong" and I can not exactly define it.

So, remembering that I a newby here with an emotional nature now:

It is that third category which I have grown uneasy with: some of the TV I see my adult children watching, some of the TV grandkids are allowed to watch by their parents,some of my movies now...  There is a reoccurring theme I am finding across TV and some of my movies of an undercurrent of ... not sure how to word this ... objectivism of either sensuality or sexual natures.  Nothing blatant, something more subtle.

It could be because my nature is so new that I am overly sensitive, it could be my thought is correct.

Is there no standard of innocence or purity any longer?  Has our culture so eroded that everything is translated through filters of sexual content or salaciousness?

And the answer to that question really is bothering me.  Under my old nature I was beyond blind to even the existence of such.  I knew through my friend Chrissy that such a thing could exist - within the realm of abnormal psychology - she was a self admitted sex addict, had been the majority of her life.  Her friendship with me made her wake up and realize that she really needed professional help.  Unfortunately, she had already contracted HPV, becoming one of the first to die of this in the early 1980's.  We were stunned, we loved her for the sister she was.  And even her sisters were speechless.  A disease no one had ever heard of, killed Chrissy, while she was in therapy for her addiction, thankfully after she had accepted Salvation for real.  But, Chrissy's problem lay within the realm of abnormal psychology ... right?

Now with this new nature, I am revisiting that thought.  Was Chrissy more normal than abnormal?  Or has culture and society move so far towards the side of sin that there is no concept of actual purity or innocence any longer?  Are we nothing but meat to be hunted down by those whose conscious are scarred?

And if the latter is true, then how is Kris to be viewed by those closest to him?

In my previously, completely blind nature ... was I ever actually understood or just considered either the densest male whomever existed or the most libertine of any male whomever existed?  Neither would be true since I never had the basis from which I could have believed anything other than what Chrissy went through was anything other than abnormal.  Mind you any attempt to place Kris as guilty of such sin would be majorly in error, Kris' problems lay elsewhere.

Yet, movies and TV seem to have an undercurrent of expecting something like Chrissy to be normal ...

So, the question:

If purity and innocence can still exist, does the existence of the sexual nature then destroy the innocence which did exist?  Is one at the cost of the other?

And if the answer is a flat yes, I believe Kris is going to give up on humanity ...

Public Pressure

Pick an animal I do not like to eat.
Pick something I would not hunt.
Pick a TV "star" I have never heard of.
Pick a TV show I have never heard of.
Pick an author I have never heard of.
Pick a Christian being slapped around and now I have heard of him!

Yeah, Phil Robertson, of apparently Duck Commander fame has suddenly made the news!

Apparently Phil never heard of Jimmy Carter and his destruction at the hands of Playboy Magazine.  Sure you can be a Christian but when you expect fair treatment at the hands of the world - you are dreaming.

So, Phil commented that with LGBT agenda we are discussing sexual sin - surprise! the Bible says the same thing!  Sexual sin is sin, sin is judged by God, suprise! the world does not believe they deserve judged.  So, A&E called him on this and now he is without a show as A&E's horror at offending between 2 and 6% of the population is greater than offending the Christian majority in this nation.

Oh wait, I forgot, it is okay to trashed Christians because they are powerless.

Well, I do not have cable, so I do not have A&E even as an option.  But, just to pass on a point - I have boycotted Disney since they opened their arms to the gay community and locked out Christians once a year.  They are not willing to have a Christian day ...  So, discriminate against me - why should I use your products?  But, the weakness of the Christians in this country do not allow them to boycott what their children demand.  And consider China whom enslaves Christians to work in factories making junk to ship to America!  I refuse to buy China anything, even if it is the only item available - I will then revert to buying used rather than new, if it means starving China of my dollars!

Should American Christians ever wake up to discover their spine and the power of public opinion/pressure - entities such as Disney would rapidly be starved, as would Sony and Tri-Star all of whom have made anti-Christian statements.  Kiss off most of the TV - imagine Nelson rates now in the 2-3% as a high because Christians are willing to no long put up with their messages.  Conversely, supporting companies which support Christian causes, even if only by not banning Salvation Army bell ringers, would put Kroeger in the lead over their rather God-less competition (Target, K-Mart, Wal-Mart).  Imagine such a new world.  Sure haters would go out of their minds but then again, they can go to France and enjoy all they seek to make America into.

As just a well documented example of what a boycott can due:
I was in Hawaii one time and the police came up with the bright idea of issuing parking tickets to all rentals cars, even if they were parked correctly.  The $25 ticket was nothing compared to the $600 just to return to Hawaii to appear in court to fight the ticket!  So, I told them the situation, provide photographs of my correctly parked car, ticket displayed on the windshield and they told me to pay up or have a bench warrant issued.  Okay, so I told all of my friends, all of my friends friends, co-workers, anyone I heard mention going to Hawaii and at the end of one year I had amassed $1.3m in losses to Hawaiian tourist industry and airlines.  And I wrote and told them so.  Second year was better $2.3m in moneys which did not reach their shores and I told them again.  This continued for 5 years.  I how had amassed over $50m in funds which were redirected to other tourist destinations.  I got a letter of apology from the state's Lt. Governor.  Never got my $25 back but they were able to observe these bright ideas can hurt them - if someone is willing to make their behavior public and hold them accountable.

You have power as a Christian.  Don't be stupid - use it wisely and effectively.  You too can have the ability to starve public corporations and movements into submission just by refusing to use them or to fight them publicly.  Remember evil hates the light of truth and will flee from it, but you have to have the determination to take a stand.

For me, I am not an A&E customer so little I can do there.  But, I can go out and buy one of Robertson's books at Costco this weekend - maybe a present for Dutchman or Swede for next week?  You can also fight by supporting the person being attacked too!

In Passing

Noted in passing on Wednesday is the passing of Ken Hutcherson.  He was a football player, a pastor and a royal pain in the *tush* to the politicians of Washington state.

In Kris' book you think you are something because you are a sports star, I pity you.
In Kris' book you are an ex-sports celebrity, I pity you.
In Kris' book you are a Chrisitian getting wound up in social issues, I pity you.

So you can see I had a few bones of contention with Ken ...  However, I knew Ken and respected him immensely.

Mind you, I had no idea whom he was at first but we both were working on the same issue - Washington State's draconian adoption laws.  This is where I planned on retiring, this is where I knew I would have a family one day, this was where I knew I would have problems because I knew I would eventually adopt internationally!

Ken was far more articulate than I and with his celebrity could gain access to those whom would shun a no one like me.  So, we could talk on the issue at hand and he presented ideas and arguments to encourage the adoption environment in this State.  To a point there was success and we were in agreement. 

Just a chance encounter, two people with nothing in common except the same Lord.

Ken went on to battle the gay and lesbian agenda, which step by step has conquered this state, the definition of marriage, and many other social agenda items around here.

I guess I view the question of marriage as being between a man, a woman and God - just because the government demands the right of taxation and offers you incentives to register with them, does not change whom marriage is before.  But, Ken fought with the government their right to define or redefine the definition of marriage.  All Christians have lost in this state legally but it changes nothing before God.

We are lessened with the loss of Ken and his willingness to remind politicians they stand before a judging God, whether they like it or not.  Outspoken sometimes, even a little rough but a genuine concern for where our culture is going.  And whether you were powerful or poor, even a no one, he had time to talk with you and even work with you ...

The End is Near!

I have always loved End of the Earth predictions.  I was in high school when Hal Lindsey came out with his "Late Great Planet Earth".  I expected something on the wastage of earth resources and how to respect the planet and what it has remaining.  You have to remember I was raised in Germany and one of our lessons was the consumption of earth resources - as in, World War II consumed roughly 20% of the worlds known resources at that point.

So, I was interested, I wanted to be a responsible citizen of the earth.  I was stunned by what I read in those pages.  Really, if you do not own a First Edition - find it, buy it, read it, it was heavily rewritten for the second edition.  Why?  Well, the First Edition was pretty much gloom and doom - lots of dates of wars and battles and players all leading up to the return of Jesus - as prophesied in the Bible.

Apparently, Hal was wrong or the Bible was, so his book was rewritten allowing for less Hal and more Bible - all of those dates were removed.

But, we have always had this gloom and doom approach during my adult lifetime.  Why?  Well it all goes back to a heretic name Dwight Pentecost, whom mentored Hal Lindsey, C.C. Carson and a host of other heretics to come out of the Dallas school of heresy.  Am I being too strong here?  No, the Bible calls this group: heretics, vipers, wolves, etc - we are not to have fellowship with them for they are apostate.  In the pre-Christian days we were told to stone them!  Yet, the Western Theology instead embraces them and welcomes them into their churches to teach and corrupt the next generation. Just in case you wonder if your bookstore, your Church, your Denomination, your Synod is Christian - easy litmus test.

So, it has been with amusement I have followed the host of predictors, each trying to out do the others and even themselves to warn, to prepare, for the end of the age.  Hint: we are told we will not know when it is or when it has even started.  If you disagree then you stand in contrast to the Bible - welcome to heresy...

Why bring this up today?  Mostly because of the passing of Harold Camping, whom was quite active in the field of giving doom and gloom pronouncements to gullible Americans.  He was rich, he had his own TV and radio networks, published magazines, spent a fortune telling everyone about one date, after another, after another ....  until he figured it out.  His fate of someone of any veracity was spelled out in 2011 by the world's press whom loves to pass out black eyes to other Christians, just because they are called by the same name as a wacko.....

May 19, 2011 -- Time to break out the champagne and party hats because it's that time of year once again: doomsday.
Now Judgment Day doesn't always come once a year. In fact, it's often much more frequent than that. But that doesn't mean that all apocalypses are created equal.
While waiting for the end of the world, why not take a look at some of the most famous doomsday predictions in history?
We'll begin with the most imminent doomsday prediction: May 21. Pastor Harold Camping, president of Family Radio, is convinced that, after decoding passages in the Bible, the Rapture will take place on May 21, 2011, an event ushered in by an unprecedented global earthquake. The world will cease to exist five months later on October 21, 2011.
Camping has a small, but dedicated following that feels it is their duty to warn nonbelievers of the impending apocalypse. So they travel around the country with signs, hats, painted buses and reading materials all advertising impending doom.
When asked if he had considered what he might do when May 22 rolls around, Camping told NPR: "There is no Plan B."
Despite his faith in his convictions, Camping has been wrong before. He first predicted the end of the world in 1994, which he insists was a premature assessment since he had not completed his Bible research.

And I comment on Mr. Camping for a real reason, he learned from his mistake and until yesterday, shut his mouth up and stopped giving Christianity black eyes.  Of course, the damage was already done, but for him personally, he had the integrity to realize he was wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and finally and completely wrong in what he had done.

Best of intention but still a problem.  Yeah, because he realized, because he then shut up, I am thinking he was wrong, as any of us can be.  But, as far as I am aware he is alone in his ability to do just that - repent and disappear in silence as we are told to.  The others, well, their testimony is their heresy, for which they stand condemned, if anyone will bother to look.

So, another chapter in Western Theology comes to a close.  The vipers are still with us, looking to corrupt at any opportunity.  Are you sharp enough to catch them before they snare you?

What The Heck?

What the heck is going on here?

As you might remember, several weeks ago I was treated to inquisition involving a long time friend of mine and his misbehaviors with the females of that church.  It took me a few weeks to get past the idea that I would willing execute him for what he has done.  Today, Thursday, guess what I got treated to - another inquisition!

This time, the guy was the youth pastor of my old church, at least up until three years ago, and his behaviors apparently spanned numerous churches and about 20 years!

Yeah, no one bothered to check any of his references before he was hired - he had been fired from every church he had worked for - for the same problem - inability to control himself around teenage girls!  Good Lord!  What has become of the church when it is too hard to check references?!?!?!?!?  And too hard to let the truth be known, much less charges filed against him!  Yeah, he appears to be getting away with his latest disaster as well.  Grrrrrrrrrr!

I am just sickened that we can place no trust that a job search committee will return qualified candidates, we can not trust the testimony of the answers given in interviews, no one is checking references when hiring those whom will be responsible for the care of the children and the church through more destroyed lives - looses even more the right to bear Jesus' name!

We do not need a revival in this sick Western theology poisoned church - we need a full blown REVOLUTION!

Out with the seminars creating these disasters!
Out with Elderships unable to make God-ly decisions!
Out with Pastors whom can not stand up for God!
Out with Youth Workers dedicated to satisfying their carnal natures!
Out with those whom destroy others through gossip!

The whole lot of you suck!
Get out of my church!

And yeah, that is exactly how I feel on this whole subject!  There is no room in God's Kingdom for these losers - and oh by the way - Jesus flat out said this at least four times I can think of!  It is the doctrine of demons which allow this culture to even exist in the Church, drive men to their baser natures, destroy the lives of the innocent and reduce Jesus' life and sacrifice to a nice story but of no real relevance!

Sorry, you will get what you deserve you sham of a church!  Your ministry is over.  God has left you.  Why do you even keep the lights on?

Now how to cause real change ... ?  Another denomination?  Or can a church be sued for claiming to be Christian when they no longer represent anything Christian?

I really feel pity for the likes of Hutt, Zwingli, Huss and Luther - fairly straight on men whom began a movement to bring people to God and it has grown into a forum for pedophilia ...

Where are our Christian leadership?  And if their absence is indicative of something, I worry for the immediate future of Christianity.

Response to: A call for massive ‘Reformation’ – before it is too late.

I have no knowledge whom Andrew Strom is and it really does not matter one way or another, someone needs to reply to his list of problems within the Church, however, he shows he is a part of the problem as well - a product of the Western (American) Church and its apostate theology ...  So, italicized are his words, non-italicized are mine:

It is a sad fact that today’s church is deceiving itself in some very crucial areas. Below are some plain facts (-absolutely true) that may shock a few people: 

1. “Ask Jesus into our heart” is not in the Bible. Neither is “Give your heart to the Lord”, or repeating a “sinner’s prayer”. These practices do not exist in Scripture at all. The subject of salvation is the most important subject in the Bible and we are being lied to about it. These doctrines are a total fabrication. They were invented to make salvation “quick and convenient”. Many church members today who are relying on these things are clearly not ‘saved’ at all. 
(It is true, however, what has become institutionalized is the "prayer of faith"/"confession"/whatever your group calls it.  There are no magic words in Christianity, but there is the requirement for the acknowledgement of your own unworthiness before God and the need/recognition of Jesus' payment made on your behalf.  This is the most common error I run into in America, that you are "saved" by "the prayer" rather than by a changed heart and life!)

2. Church buildings do not exist in the Bible. They were invented around 200-300 AD, when the church was in serious decline. Only a backslidden church could fall so far away from the simplicity of the early church. Church buildings are anti-New Testament, and bring with them a host of problems and traditions. It was basically when the church fell into the hands of Rome that this concept of the “cathedral” really took over. And we are still spending millions on these monuments today. 
(Not entirely true, here Strom forgets the writings of the Apostle John's disciples whom carried him from place to place, church to church, throughout Galatia.  Paul wrote concerning the running of the church of both Ephesus and Corinth.  There may have been some home churches but in Ephesus we have the building itself John and Timothy shepherded!  The remains of the church Lazarus shepherded on Crete and the second century Basilica of Mary, the largest church ever constructed until the Romans took everything over.  I imagine if I reread my archaeology works for a few hours I could find other first or second century churches we have found through digging. )

3. The “one pastor runs everything” model is totally unscriptural. Far from running everything, in the book of Acts we find the word “pastor” NOT EVEN USED ONCE. (-The early church did have strong leaders and elders. But it was never a “one man band” like we see today. And never was it so “controlling” either). 
(Again, we have to remember James owned the Jerusalem church, Paul claimed primo rights to all the churches he established, Timothy was told to take the reins of Ephesus, John owned the Galatian churches at the end of the first century.  Call that position what you will, but it did exist, as did the concept of Bishop. )

4. “Tithing” is not a New Testament practice at all. And it is being shamefully abused by today’s preachers. In the New Testament we are told to give cheerfully – whatever we purpose in our hearts to give. Telling people that they MUST give 10% to the church or they are “robbing God” is totally sick – and a money-grubbing way of twisting Scripture. There is no evidence that the apostles EVER preached ‘tithing’ to New Testament believers. It was clearly regarded as an Old Testament practice. 
(And now we run smack into the misnomer that somehow Old Testament is Jewish and New Testament is Christian! Nothing could be any further from the truth!  Both are Jewish - however, the positional opportunity was extended to the gentile believers to come into salvation through Jesus (just the same as the Jew!).  There is no such thing as a "tithe" to the church any longer, however, ALL you have is expected of you by God!   It is the Western (American) money grubbing belief system by which God requires nothing or little of you!  If you can not give ALL you have to God, then you need to rethink your theology!  Modern money grubbing apologists such as the radio "Christian" financial advisers are more interested in not trusting God than living a Scriptural life.  By the way, the Jewish tithe was 33% when you include all of the fees and charges for and by the Synagog.  Sorry Dave, God wants everything you have, He will curse you with what you do not willingly give ... )

5. The words “prosper” or ‘prosperity’ were NEVER used by Jesus at all – and only exist a couple of times in the entire New Testament. Yet greedy preachers have built whole kingdoms upon them. The words – “sell what you have and give to the poor” and “deceitfulness of riches” and “you cannot serve God and mammon” and “woe to you that are rich” were DEFINITELY used by Jesus and the apostles. But we don’t hear these things preached too much, do we? 
(Here I agree with Strom, the entire concept of the prosperity paganism, has nothing to do with Christianity - it is a lie as old as gnosticism and almost eclipsed The Way, the original name of Christianity.  Equally God is quite expressive concerning debt and getting out of it - period.  And so I now wonder what his point was above about giving, unless it is just that he does not want to give to support the local church?  But, even in the first century the concept of giving to the "store house" was well known.)

6. There were no Bible Colleges, Seminaries or degrees in the New Testament. The only people who seemed to have “Bible Schools” were the Scribes and Pharisees! The apostles were simple fishermen and tax collectors. It is likely that a number of them could not even read or write. What was their “qualification” for being in the ministry? Simply that they had SPENT A LOT OF TIME WITH JESUS. The fact that people expect a “professional clergy” today with degrees from Bible College has helped to make the church sicker and more unscriptural than ever. Simple humble people with a calling from God often cannot get to minister because they do not have a “piece of paper” to make them ‘qualified’. -Yet another disaster for the church. 
(Partially wrong.  First off, Jews were amongst the best educated cultures on earth in the first century!  Both boys and girls were taught reading and writing, in the synagog.  We know this from the Synagog of Gamla.  Jesus taught the Apostles as well as the 120 disciples whom were with him.  These went on to found their own itinerant schools to teach about Jesus.  We have ample proof of this through the writings of the early church fathers.  No there were no degrees, there was only the proof of your work and for some accolades by those whom were known and respected.  It is a remnant of Catholicism that you have to go to school, get a degree, to share the secret knowledge, controlled by the Catholic Church.  Nothing angers me more than someone educated above their abilities, pulling rank with their degrees, when they are dead wrong...  And yes, I have 12 years and refused my degree - I believe in what Paul wrote - if I can not walk the talk, don't listen.)

7. There is almost no evidence whatsoever that the early church had their “main meeting” on a Sunday. They gathered together ‘from house to house’ virtually every day! There were no church buildings. They did not dress up and “go to church”. There were no denominations. There were no separate groups with different ‘labels’. They lived their lives together – all the Christians in the local area. Love and fellowship and ‘koinonia’ were as natural to them as breathing. And the apostles in Jerusalem preached every day at huge open-air gatherings. -Not “hidden away” inside four walls. This was truly a “street church” in every way. 
 (Here a knowledge of Biblical times comes in handy.  We have already covered the concept of church.  People of "The Way", had the ability to meet anytime they wanted except on Saturday because the Jews used the Synagogs then, and the early Christian leaders taught in the Synagogs.  Later this was to change and the now labelled "Christian" sect were thrown out of Judaism.  Some bought their old Synagogs, adding Christian symbolism as early as 70 ad.  In Greece, Galatia and Rome, yes, they started in the streets, the forums and meeting halls - as well as, homes.)


8. The idea that you can replace the moving of the Holy Spirit with programs, programs and more programs just shows how low we have sunk. Man-made programs are everywhere today. The early church had much more of God and much less of ‘man’. 
(Okay, Amen!  Our churches are sick, driven by programs, abandoned by God - long ago.  The Holy Spirit's ministry have been replaced by pragmatic business managers, power is political - not God given and the church has reaped the whirlwind for this lack of faith and false testimony.)

9. We preach a ‘humanistic’ Jesus today. -A Jesus who exists mainly for our own “happiness”. A Santa Claus who wants to rain down continual blessings upon us. A God of grace and mercy without judgement, righteousness or truth. Our gross misrepresentation of who Jesus really is, is one of the most serious offenses of the modern church. Today’s church seems to worship a “plastic” Jesus – one that she has made in her own image. What an offense to God. 
 (Yup again, but let me drive home the point, in case I am misunderstanding his viewpoint here.  Assuming you are a Christian: when you look to see God, you are going to see Jesus.  When God looks like you, it not you and your sin he gazes upon - it is Jesus He sees.  You can not see God in any perspective and you are covered by Jesus blood, dripping with it, hence why God sees His son.  God is a fearful and angry God, if you are not His - that means He will abandon you to torment and destruction under Satan's care if you really want to live in his world.  Conversely, you want to be covered by Jesus' blood and live in that world as well - welcome to utter destruction as you are lulled to sleep by Satans' many blessings to keep you from  seeing or hearing Jesus.)


A lot of preachers are well aware that there is something very wrong with the church today. They know there is little ‘fear of the Lord’. They know there is no deep repentance or deep moving of the Holy Spirit. They know that it is just the same old “game” being played every week. A lot of them are very aware of this. But they will not do anything about it. They will not rock the boat. And they will “squash” anyone who comes along trying to do something. They do not want a real “shaking”. There is too much to lose. They have their careers and their little ‘kingdoms’ at stake. This is the real truth of the matter. This is where the rubber truly meets the road. 
(Remember that fear of the Lord is the BEGINNING of wisdom, not the completion of it!  And yes, the modern church has been compromised by the lure of financial wealth and steady incomes.  When we put money before God, we lose, not God.)

That is why God is about to bring “Great Reformation”. He will not put up with these ‘hirelings’ any longer. He will not have them as leaders over His people. A lot of them are about to “lose their heads”. They will never lead God’s people again.
This is what true ‘Reformation’ is all about. It is the process of replacing the old leadership and the old lies. -It is David taking over from ‘Saul’.
There is a ‘New Wineskin’ coming. In fact it is upon us. There is a new leadership arising – many of them trained in the ‘wilderness’ for such a time as this. The hour is now here. LET THE NEW LEADERS ARISE! The sad fact is that today’s church has sunk so low that it is almost a matter of people needing to be RESCUED OUT OF HER. I never thought I would say something as radical as that, but it is the truth. 
(Nope, God is not going to bring us a reformation as long as we lack men with humble hearts, men intent upon their agendas rather than laying down a foundation of truth from God.  We are surrounded by a hurting world filled with people betrayed by those they should have respected, a church whom could not and would not respond.  If you want to lay it all out there - the MEN of this generation have walked away from God given roles and responsibilities and until WE reclaim that - we never will have anything other than the chaos we deserve...  And yes, I dearly pray for revival, but it will only be when God moves that it will occur.)

Much of the church is living a lie. Many inside her are told continuously that they are “OK” – that they are saved and headed for heaven. Nothing could be further from the truth. Multitudes of them are headed directly for hell. The systemized LYING that is going on has deceived the leaders and the people alike. It is the blind leading the blind. We need to contend for these people – desperately. Much of the church is “lost”. They are mired in deception – an entire system of deception.
Kindest regards in Christ,
Andrew Strom

(Personal Theology is important, the contents of your theology is important, it must be based upon the Bible and not man's opinions.  You must live it!  Men you are judged and God calls you account both now and in eternity.  So, whatcha gona do?

Same old Same is not going to work this time, unless Hell is actually your desired destination..... )

Where was God ... The Humanists Speak

By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-editor
(CNN) – The disasters are always different and often devastating. But the questions they raise are hauntingly familiar.
In the days since Super Typhoon Haiyan ...

Officials say the death toll may rise to 10,000 in the heavily Catholic country. Meanwhile, many people are asking: How should we make sense of such senseless death and destruction? Was God in the whirlwind itself, as the Bible hints, or present only in the aftermath, as people mobilize to provide food, water and shelter?

These questions may not be new, but we keep asking them, perhaps because the answers remain so elusive.

For many Americans, a paradox sits at the heart of their thinking about natural disasters. According to a survey taken after 2011's earthquake and tsunami in Japan, most Americans (56%) believe that God is control of everything.

But more Americans blame hurricanes, earthquakes and other storms on global warming (58%) than on an angry and punishing deity (38%), according to a 2011 poll by the Public Religion Research Institute. ...

The Bible's Psalm 107 says that “For (God) commands, and raises the stormy wind, which lifts up the waves thereof. ...
He turns rivers into a wilderness, and the water springs into dry ground."

But, as the poll shows, most Americans have moved past the idea that God causes natural disasters, wrote Stephen Prothero, a frequent CNN contributor, in a 2011 column.

"When it comes to earthquakes and hurricanes, our authorities are geologists and meteorologists," Prothero said as he rode out Hurricane Irene on Cape Cod in Massachusetts. "Most of us interpret these events not through the rumblings of the biblical prophet Jeremiah or the poetry of the Book of Revelation but through the scientific truths of air pressure and tectonic plates."

For atheists, storms like Haiyan are proof that God doesn't exist, author and activist Sam Harris said.

"Either God can do nothing to stop catastrophes like this, or he doesn’t care to, or he doesn’t exist. God is either impotent, evil or imaginary," Harris said after Japan's tsunami. "Take your pick, and choose wisely."

God may or may not be in withering storms, but many religious leaders say they sense a divine presence in the aftermath, as people across the world mobilize to lend a hand.

Rabbi Harold Kushner is one of the most famous names in the realm of theodicy, a branch of theology that tries to explain the unexplainable: why a good God would allow bad things to happen.

After Japan's tsunami, Kushner called nature "an equal-opportunity destroyer," making no distinctions between sinners and saints.

But Kushner, author of the bestselling book "When Bad Things Happen to Good People," said he sees God's hand in the resilience of people whose lives have been destroyed and in the "goodness and generosity" of strangers who donate and pray for the survivors.

That still leaves a tricky question, though: Why do humans suffer, sometimes terribly, in the first place?
There's no good answer, says the Rev. James Martin, a Jesuit priest and best-selling author.

"Each person has to come to grips with that," Martin said. "It’s not as if some magic answer can be found. But the idea of God suffering along with us can be very helpful."

Muslims, on the other hand, see stormy trials as tests from God, said Sayyid Syeed, national director of the Islamic Society of North America’s Office of Interfaith and Community Alliances.

"Muslims believe that God tests those he loves, and these tragedies also serve as a reminder to the rest of us to remain grateful to God for all our blessings and cognizant that we must support those in need," Syeed said.

Vietnamese Buddhist master Thich Nhat Hanh, whose native country remains in Haiyan's path, said such storms remind us that our lives are impermanent and the importance of treasuring each moment.

"This is the best that we can do for those who have died: We can live in such a way that they can feel they are continuing to live in us, more mindfully, more profoundly, more beautifully, tasting every minute of life available to us, for them," Hanh said.

***

Tomorrow, let's consider this from God's, not man's, perspective ...